Want More Avatar? Here’s 13 Minutes of Music By James Horner

J.D. Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 12:52 am

Not only does he bring back the Four Notes O’Doom (a musical idea which I believe to be inspired by the opening of Rachmaninov’s 1st symphony), but at 5:13 the choir starts singing a variation on his theme for “Glory” (which in turn was borrowed from Sergei Prokofiev’s score for “Ivan the Terrible”). While I look forward to the full release, part of me can’t help but feel frustrated: he had a whole year to write this and the samples so far are still saturated with motives both by Horner and classical writers of the past. I have no qualms with composers reusing their own themes or those of others (Shostakovich and Stravinsky are both good examples of this), but Horner is really pushing it since he makes virtually no attempt to hide any of his self references or breathe new life into his quotations of other composers (which is something he did to great effect on “Glory”). That he does this on such a frequent basis with his works only exacerbates things to an infuriating degree.

Still, I’ll have my fingers crossed and hope that it grows on me, or that at least these bits are scattered at a somewhat more bearable level.

Jorn Tillnes Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 5:26 am

I like the term “If it ain’t broke, why fix it?” and this is true in most of Horner’s work. It’s tried and true motifs that works, and to Horner’s defence he has found what works in a lot of movies. The way he can make a standard scene come alive because of a wonderful emotional piece is an amazing gift.

Horner is one of very very few that gets it right with almost every scene, and if that scene requires a reprise of previous material then so be it. It’s worth it in my opinion, and is one of the key reasons why James Horner is so succesful and why I regard him so highly.

J.D. Reply:
December 25th, 2009 at 3:05 am

Jorn: Nice reply. I’m glad to find someone just as passionate on the subject as I am, even if we disagree. I’ll try to get back to you after the holidays, because I’m going to be preoccupied with festivities for the next two weeks. Merry Christmas!

Jorn Tillnes Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 7:32 pm

Actually, I disagree with your initial assessment. The themes you mentioned are trademark themes from Williams. You could say it was the same if Horner used the theme from Titanic for example. Think about about it, if Jaws theme was used in Star Wars, wouldn’t it be just a parody? In fact it makes me think of Spaceballs. Then you go on and talk about ideas instead of themes. Ideas and themes are completely and utterly different. Is Horner re-using musical ideas or themes?

Your idea of iconic is different from mine, but fair enough, if that’s your opinion I can see where you are coming from. I would argue that Horner is skilled just by the fact that he re-uses some notes to give it maximum effects. All the scenes you mentioned is perfectly balanced with Horner’s music, and you can’t deny the effectiveness and the effort Horner makes to set the scene apart, certainly on an emotional level. This is where no one can touch Horner in my opinion. The problem with new, fresh and exciting is that it faisl 90% of the time. I’ve seen it again and again and not only from the less experienced composers. They feel compelled to do something new, something experimental instead of just see what works. They should all learn from Horner who knows exactly what works in every scene. When he scored Titanic, Cameron wanted the ending to be very different than what Horner had in mind. He wanted it to be a hollow and sad ending without hope. Horner disagreed and in secret he wrote the theme you all know and love. We all know how that turned out and it is because Horner knows exactly what the movie and scenes need. Tried and tested works. You don’t see the best sports teams in the world change tactic in every game just because it’s fresh, new and exciting. They do what every winner does, go with what works and if that four note motif needs to be in the movie, then you can be damn sure it should be included instead of something new that probably won’t work as well. Given a choice, I will take what works (and I love) over “original” material that probably won’t work any day of the week. That’s probably why I always eat the same food at my favorite restaurants come to think of it.

So Horner use musical ideas that has been around for a long time, welcome to the world we live in my friend. There isn’t a single piece of music in this world that hasn’t been used at some points, certainly not ideas. Just because you know where this piece comes from, doesn’t mean it is a bad piece. Horner just takes the spectacular and embellishes it, makes it better.

I LOVE long comments like this, it makes for a wonderful discussion in my opinion and I would certainly encourage more of it so keep it coming. You are already judging Avatar based on some samples and that will definitely color your final judgement of the score. I am guilty of this too, I do it all the time, it’s human nature. I’ll probably like it and you’ll probably not like it, but that’s what is great about film music. We can have great discussions like this and have widely different taste in certain matters, but our taste matches perfectly in Apollo 13, Legends of the Fall and Braveheart.

On a sidenote: I knew there was a reason why Rachmaninov and Prokofiev are two of my favorite composers. (You have to admit that the four not motif is nothing short of brilliant).

Sorry for the long answer, but I hope you will read it. I love your reply, easily one of the best we’ve had here on Soundtrackgeek. Keep’em coming!